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are you -- is there no deal at the end of the year if tax rates for the top 2% aren't the clinton tax rates, period. no ifs, ands or buts on that specific aspect of the fiscal cliff. >> with respect to the tax rates, i want to emphasize, i am open to new ideas. i'm not going to slam the door in their face. i want to hear -- i want to hear ideas from everybody. >> that's not a no. here is the treasury secretary timothy geithner. >> there's no agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top 2%. >> not necessarily going up to the clinton era rates. just going up. today at a press conference at the capital, boehner got a question about this. listen carefully to how he responded or didn't respond. >> you did speak with the president earlier this week. can you characterize this call? and also we understand that he just is making clear that it's got to be increasing rates for the wealthy or no deal. are you willing to give a little bit? maybe just not all the way to 39.6? >> the phone call was pleasant, but just more of the same. the conversations that the staff had yesterday, j
are you -- is there no deal at the end of the year if tax rates for the top 2% aren't the clinton tax rates, period. no ifs, ands or buts on that specific aspect of the fiscal cliff. >> with respect to the tax rates, i want to emphasize, i am open to new ideas. i'm not going to slam the door in their face. i want to hear -- i want to hear ideas from everybody. >> that's not a no. here is the treasury secretary timothy geithner. >> there's no agreement that doesn't involve the...
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it does tend to complicate the tax code. the simplest way is simply to raise the tax rates up to the clinton levels and, you know, we do have a strong interest in simplifying the tax code. but if that's politically for difficult, there's a willingness to retain the deductions that they could utilize. >> let me ask you about that. another interesting scenario played out with mitch mcconnell, essentially fill lee bust sistering his own bill. he says it has to guarantee that there won't be another debt ceiling crisis. but could that be where we're headed? >> well, it's certainly possible. it would be a terrible outcome and i think you're hearing business leaders weigh in and say, we don't want to go through this debate only to be followed by another big fight over the debt limit. and we just can't afford every year, every 18 months to have a debate about whether we honor the full faith and credit of the u.s. government. that's no way to run the country. >> what do you think the chances of that happening? >> it's possible. one o
it does tend to complicate the tax code. the simplest way is simply to raise the tax rates up to the clinton levels and, you know, we do have a strong interest in simplifying the tax code. but if that's politically for difficult, there's a willingness to retain the deductions that they could utilize. >> let me ask you about that. another interesting scenario played out with mitch mcconnell, essentially fill lee bust sistering his own bill. he says it has to guarantee that there won't be...
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so a hodgepodge of things and mostly focused on the taxes, 60%. the president has that number to use in addition to what we learned after the exit polling election night and the results of the election. >> and so, i think it's a foregone conclusion that tax rates for the wealthiest of americans are going up and as a pra practical matter, i don't understand why the gop doesn't agree to that sooner rather than later and the onus on the white house to give something relative to spending cuts and entitlement reforms. i think people want compromise and a bigger deal than just taxes going up for those 2% and doesn't get us where we need to go. >> david, let's play what alan simpson had to say regarding the growth. that's the overall end game here. growing the economy and not let lawmakers and such to posture before us. let's play it. >> not a single economist who talked to us in our hearings said we can't grow our way out of this with double digit growth for 20 years. you can't cut spending your way out of this baby or you ruin a very fragile economy an
so a hodgepodge of things and mostly focused on the taxes, 60%. the president has that number to use in addition to what we learned after the exit polling election night and the results of the election. >> and so, i think it's a foregone conclusion that tax rates for the wealthiest of americans are going up and as a pra practical matter, i don't understand why the gop doesn't agree to that sooner rather than later and the onus on the white house to give something relative to spending cuts...
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one is the tax hikes. he's proposed basically to raise taxes on charities and job creators and he thinks that that's where his starting point is with president obama. >> hold on a second. let's be factual. i think what he said was that he was open to $800 billion in revenues but he did not specify the deductions. >> the only way you could get $800 billion in deductions is to go after the charitable deduction and the mortgage deduction. you're going to go after charities. salvation army said yesterday that they have had the biggest crowds coming in that they've ever seen. we're going to go after charities right now? i don't think that's the best place to be. i think what we need to start at is a place where we believe, we think taxes should be cut. that's what reagan did in a recession and guess what? by the end of his term, revenue doubled. we created 20 million jobs and youth unemployment dropped 43%. that's what we should start with. >> you're saying you don't like speaker boehner because he's considerin
one is the tax hikes. he's proposed basically to raise taxes on charities and job creators and he thinks that that's where his starting point is with president obama. >> hold on a second. let's be factual. i think what he said was that he was open to $800 billion in revenues but he did not specify the deductions. >> the only way you could get $800 billion in deductions is to go after the charitable deduction and the mortgage deduction. you're going to go after charities. salvation...
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taxes will go up on everybody. and republicans will instead be in a position of voting against middle class tax cuts. democrats bring such a bill to the floor. on sunday house minority leader signaled democrats may not wait saying in a statement, quote, if speaker boehner refuses to schedule this widely supported bill for a vote on democrats for a vote, democrats will introduce a discharged petition to automatically bring to the floor the senate passed middle class tax cuts bill, that bill that would pass the 98% automatically raise the rates to the clinton era for the top 2%. ultimately he has to bring out the best deal. this new negotiation strategy. it appears to have genuinely thrown republicans for a loop. >> the idea of a negotiation is roll over and do what i ask. >> i think we're going over the cliff. it's pretty clear to me they made a political calculation. the plan to entitlement reform is quite frankly a joke. >> a two-step deal in place. step one spending cuts and tax changes that would take effect in
taxes will go up on everybody. and republicans will instead be in a position of voting against middle class tax cuts. democrats bring such a bill to the floor. on sunday house minority leader signaled democrats may not wait saying in a statement, quote, if speaker boehner refuses to schedule this widely supported bill for a vote on democrats for a vote, democrats will introduce a discharged petition to automatically bring to the floor the senate passed middle class tax cuts bill, that bill that...
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their tax rates are low. meanwhile, the middle class is disappearing, and they're in a lot of trouble. yes, the wealthy and large corporations must be asked to play a significant role in deficit reduction. yes, we must not cut social security, medicare, medicaid, education. that's not bernie sanders' point of view that is clearly what the american people believe. and the president, democrats have got to hold firm and when they do, it will finally be the republicans that come to the table rather than just the democrats caving in, as has been the case in the past. >> all right, senator bernie sanders, appreciate your time on this friday night. thank you so much for joining us. >>> coming up, the fight over the fiscal cliff is putting american jobs at risk. one of these congressional members is lying about the problem. we'll use the newest job numbers to get to the truth next. >>> and republicans in michigan are ramming through antiunion legislation and hurting middle class americans in the process. the people o
their tax rates are low. meanwhile, the middle class is disappearing, and they're in a lot of trouble. yes, the wealthy and large corporations must be asked to play a significant role in deficit reduction. yes, we must not cut social security, medicare, medicaid, education. that's not bernie sanders' point of view that is clearly what the american people believe. and the president, democrats have got to hold firm and when they do, it will finally be the republicans that come to the table rather...
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nobody creates a job to get a tax cut. you create jobs when you have more customers with more money to spend on product and services. it's getting money throwing through the bottom 90% of the economy. >> we're seeing record levels of long-term unemployment right now. this is the angst in the economy. even though it's dropped to 7.7%, millions of people have been out of work for 27 weeks or more. long-term unemployment benefits expire on december 29th. this is part of the cliff. it's going to be a tough holiday for a lot of families across the country. last week, we got to point out that the congressional budget office was reported we could add 300,000 more jobs by extending benefits. it would cost $30 billion. now will republicans agree at least to extend the unemployment benefits or do they just not see any value in doing that. because they are just opposed to it. >> they only need about 25 republicans to step over to agree to do this. and you're seeing grover norquist grip fall apart. this is a really important thing to
nobody creates a job to get a tax cut. you create jobs when you have more customers with more money to spend on product and services. it's getting money throwing through the bottom 90% of the economy. >> we're seeing record levels of long-term unemployment right now. this is the angst in the economy. even though it's dropped to 7.7%, millions of people have been out of work for 27 weeks or more. long-term unemployment benefits expire on december 29th. this is part of the cliff. it's going...
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they don't want to touch tax rates at all. and so they are left kind of jiggling around the edges with tax reform and closing loopholes and things like that. they can't afford to extend these rates and kristol is not the only republican worried about this are sort of thing. there is a persistent pr problem with the party. you know, it just lost the last election because it couldn't kind of come to terms with its insistence and it's about to go down that same pr rabbit hole again with this proposal. >> ezra, wouldn't they know that this is a pr hold that is about to go down? why would they risk this, in your opinion? >> well, think about it more broadly from a bargaining standpoint. in particular, things like the payroll tax cut and any kind of stimulus that the republicans feel that they can eventually stomach, that's a great thing for them to trade away at the end. maybe they don't hate that much but know that president obama really wants. when you're late in the negotiations, that's when they are going to begin to give thing
they don't want to touch tax rates at all. and so they are left kind of jiggling around the edges with tax reform and closing loopholes and things like that. they can't afford to extend these rates and kristol is not the only republican worried about this are sort of thing. there is a persistent pr problem with the party. you know, it just lost the last election because it couldn't kind of come to terms with its insistence and it's about to go down that same pr rabbit hole again with this...
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that's just a fact, david. >> people would prefer it be done through tax reform, through tax loopholes, but also let me -- >> do you explain to them that by tax loopholes you're not going to get enough revenue to do what needs to be done? >> you are going to get to the 800 billion the speaker said you were going to get to. >> no, i don't think that's right, david. >> we have, again, our economists say we can get to that 800 billion. you have an economist says that you can't get to the 1.6 trillion that the president is trying to ask for. >> and republican math said that mitt romney was going to be president. >> now, that's a different dynamic. look, if you talk to other republicans, there were some other republicans that perhaps didn't have that level of confidence there but, again, i want to go back to this point. >> real quickly, david. we're out of time here. >> the fact is, the president and tim geithner have willfully taken a position that, in fact, in terms of generating revenue that there's only one way to generate revenue and that's through raising taxes and the president has b
that's just a fact, david. >> people would prefer it be done through tax reform, through tax loopholes, but also let me -- >> do you explain to them that by tax loopholes you're not going to get enough revenue to do what needs to be done? >> you are going to get to the 800 billion the speaker said you were going to get to. >> no, i don't think that's right, david. >> we have, again, our economists say we can get to that 800 billion. you have an economist says that...
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we will accept some tax increases. but let's remember, there are some very important details to be worked out. how much and when. will they just say, okay, we will stand aside while democrats pass this tax cut for the middle class and then let the tax cuts for the wealthy engs pyre? that could happen. but does it happen before the end of the year? does it happen after the end of the year? >> now, dana, on that point, a lot of this is that they seem to have already lost the american public. in a new series of polls. quinnipiac shows that americans have views close to the president. 65% say raise taxes on $250,000 plus. 85% of polls pledged against raising taxes. that's 85%. 51% think that the gop is negotiating in bad faith. so the public seems to be gone from the republican cause. >> right. by two to one in virtually all of these polls we are seeing that they are likely to blame the republicans if the fiscal cliff is reached. and i think you've seen president obama going around the country, as with that family and the
we will accept some tax increases. but let's remember, there are some very important details to be worked out. how much and when. will they just say, okay, we will stand aside while democrats pass this tax cut for the middle class and then let the tax cuts for the wealthy engs pyre? that could happen. but does it happen before the end of the year? does it happen after the end of the year? >> now, dana, on that point, a lot of this is that they seem to have already lost the american...
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tax the rich first. obama, if he got his taxes on the rich, is still $8 trillion short over the next decade. that's where the energy taxes he's going to present and the value added tax that ultimately turns us into a european welfare state only of that can pay for obama's sized government. >> wow. grover, unfortunately we have to leave it there. our discussion of unicorns will continue, i'm sure, at least up until december 31st. thank you for joining us today as always. >> you got it. >> after the break, offer ver ses counteroffer. we will break both down with ezra klein when he joins us next on "now." i gave birth to my daughter on may 18th, five days later, i had a massive heart attack. bayer aspirin was the first thing the emts gave me. now, i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. [ woman ] learn from my story. but proven technologies allow natural gas producers to supply affordable, cleaner energy, while protecting our env
tax the rich first. obama, if he got his taxes on the rich, is still $8 trillion short over the next decade. that's where the energy taxes he's going to present and the value added tax that ultimately turns us into a european welfare state only of that can pay for obama's sized government. >> wow. grover, unfortunately we have to leave it there. our discussion of unicorns will continue, i'm sure, at least up until december 31st. thank you for joining us today as always. >> you got...
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i'm thinking a carbon tax or wealth tax. >> wall street doesn't want a carbon tax. if you want less of something, tax it. they want cap and trade to play games and not improve the environment. we need a discussion about tax policy but follow the principle, the greater the gain the greater the burden you bare. many conservatives think that. they are running the debate and totally ahistorical. >> i think this is a really important point about what else favors the wealthy in our tax system. one of the critical issues is the system of deductions. today, the way deductions work, the mortgage deductions or charitable deduction. if you give $10,000, you do $10,000 of a mortgage amount in a year. because of the way rates work as a deduction, it's $3500 if you are in the rate of 35%. and $1500 if you are a middle class family in the 15% marginal rate. it's $10,000. same for two families and much bigger value. it's upsidedown. in a tax plan we put forward, we addressed that issue. we transformed everything into an 18% credit. it's fair across the board. deductions are a way,
i'm thinking a carbon tax or wealth tax. >> wall street doesn't want a carbon tax. if you want less of something, tax it. they want cap and trade to play games and not improve the environment. we need a discussion about tax policy but follow the principle, the greater the gain the greater the burden you bare. many conservatives think that. they are running the debate and totally ahistorical. >> i think this is a really important point about what else favors the wealthy in our tax...
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cuts to protect tax cuts for the very wealthy. that's not where they want to be and somewhere deep inside they know that. >> secretary solis, no matter who they voted for, americans are clearly saying that they want compromise and even if it means accepting policies they don't necessarily agree with. 59% of obama voters want compromise. 54% of romney voters want come pro-might. you've told people they should call their congressman and senators. >> yes. >> should they tell them, let's act like adults and work this out? >> absolutely. and what is really most important is that the public has spoken. we just got through an election and now is the time for people to come together. the president has extended an olive branch. he continues to do that and all of us are working day and night until we get there. i know it's in the best interest of our economy and the world. everyone is looking to the united states for leadership and this president has exerted so much leadership, we need to continue that. it's not one party benefiting over an
cuts to protect tax cuts for the very wealthy. that's not where they want to be and somewhere deep inside they know that. >> secretary solis, no matter who they voted for, americans are clearly saying that they want compromise and even if it means accepting policies they don't necessarily agree with. 59% of obama voters want compromise. 54% of romney voters want come pro-might. you've told people they should call their congressman and senators. >> yes. >> should they tell...
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now they've morphed raising taxes to tax cuts for the rich. he's playing out of a 1995 playbook and, yes, they won the election using a class warfare argument and god bless them. they're not going to win reelection. because he's not running again. when's he going to realize that? >> just a matter of -- >> and by the way, jon, i'm sorry, he's not running for reelection again, the 225 or 35 republicans are running for reelection. and i would tell every one, if he doesn't come to you with a deal, do not vote to raise taxes a cent. don't do it. don't do it. you'll get beaten and washington will spend that money and they won't cut again and the deficit will be $18 trillion a couple of years from now. okay. now go ahead. >> why the conversation to some extent isn't about phrases like disciplined investment. mark's exactly right. it's all about, we're going to make the rich pay. and the fair share gets close to that. but it's always about what we're going to raise. the first part of the conversation is taxes going up. and i think people are willing t
now they've morphed raising taxes to tax cuts for the rich. he's playing out of a 1995 playbook and, yes, they won the election using a class warfare argument and god bless them. they're not going to win reelection. because he's not running again. when's he going to realize that? >> just a matter of -- >> and by the way, jon, i'm sorry, he's not running for reelection again, the 225 or 35 republicans are running for reelection. and i would tell every one, if he doesn't come to you...
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those middle class tax cuts in that legislation would protect the tax cuts for 98% of americans and 97% of small businesses. that, as we are in the midst of the holiday season, is absolutely essential to continuing to get our economy turned around and focus on job creation. >> "the new york times" reporting today that negotiations are now down to just two people. the president, the house speaker. we know that some senate democrats dispute this. what do you think about this point with regard to the negotiations and who's in the room? >> i know that the president and his advisers are focused on making sure that in the discussions that they have with both the house and the senate that whatever plan they agree to includes a balanced approach. one that's fair to the middle class and one whose math makes sense and reaches the size of the duff sit reduction we need that doesn't balance all the pain on the backs of the middle class and that makes sure that we have suspending cuts and revenue. when it comes to entitlement reform, we have an opportunity to add another hundreds of billions of doll
those middle class tax cuts in that legislation would protect the tax cuts for 98% of americans and 97% of small businesses. that, as we are in the midst of the holiday season, is absolutely essential to continuing to get our economy turned around and focus on job creation. >> "the new york times" reporting today that negotiations are now down to just two people. the president, the house speaker. we know that some senate democrats dispute this. what do you think about this point...
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licensed by the state and paying taxes to it. this, all while the federal government still views possessing and certainly growing, selling, and distributing marijuana as serious felonies. how's that going to work is the big question that hangs over whatever celebrations the citizens of washington might engage in tomorrow. on a side note, tomorrow is also the first day that same-sex couples will be able to get marriage licenses in washington. then on sunday, they will actually be able to tie the knot. that was another huge stage washington state voters approved in the last election. if you are betting on how this country will evolve in the next few decades in terms of politics and policy, two safe bets. marriage equality and marijuana. both of those policies go into effect tomorrow in washington. the truly fascinating thing here is that starting tomorrow, we will see an abstract debate, an abstract policy discussion that we've had for many years. should pot be legal? how might it change society? how might it improve it? we'll see
licensed by the state and paying taxes to it. this, all while the federal government still views possessing and certainly growing, selling, and distributing marijuana as serious felonies. how's that going to work is the big question that hangs over whatever celebrations the citizens of washington might engage in tomorrow. on a side note, tomorrow is also the first day that same-sex couples will be able to get marriage licenses in washington. then on sunday, they will actually be able to tie the...
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the company gets a tax credit equal to those taxes in a confidential document. all over the place, that's what's happening. our tax dollars are being diverted to corporations through gifts, through tax credits, through all sorts of different mechanisms. >> how do we get into a conversation where we can talk about these elements rather than this sort of manufactured crisis? >> here is the thing. in your book, you really draw it here, the fact that these businesses are built a lot on ignorance. i have to say, a lot of industries, including the financial industry, is built on the fact that you have a bunch of people that know their product and how to structure it so that regular folks don't know what's going on. i don't think people are ignorant. people are really, really smart. there is so much to know when you have a giant corporation coming in and basically structuring everything so they can take those bank fees that never used to be there anymore and all those other fees you outlined. with the fiscal crisis, it is a matter of understanding. when you look at the
the company gets a tax credit equal to those taxes in a confidential document. all over the place, that's what's happening. our tax dollars are being diverted to corporations through gifts, through tax credits, through all sorts of different mechanisms. >> how do we get into a conversation where we can talk about these elements rather than this sort of manufactured crisis? >> here is the thing. in your book, you really draw it here, the fact that these businesses are built a lot on...
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it's not the tax cuts going into effect. and -- >> you mean the millions of dollars -- >> the cuts that will be forced through in the next two years. that's a much bigger risk to the economy. >> therefore? >> therefore, if the president lets this thing -- look, the markets have already priced this in. >> i hear the opposite. i hear that they believe that grown-ups will do the job when they have to. they don't believe they're going to let us go over theically. >> i don't think the grown-ups believe they have to do the job by january 1st. i believe they believe the grown-ups have to do the job by january 30th or february 15th. >> they're going to believe the politicians can get the job done when they failed to get it done by january 1st. >> i hear what steve is saying there. i'm standing in your camp which is a rare spot for me to be in, standing in chris' camp here but i think you're right. i think the markets have not baked this into their equation. >> dysfunction and childishness. >> it has nothing to do would my bottom lin
it's not the tax cuts going into effect. and -- >> you mean the millions of dollars -- >> the cuts that will be forced through in the next two years. that's a much bigger risk to the economy. >> therefore? >> therefore, if the president lets this thing -- look, the markets have already priced this in. >> i hear the opposite. i hear that they believe that grown-ups will do the job when they have to. they don't believe they're going to let us go over theically....
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it's not increasing taxes on the wealthy, it's just blanketly you increase taxes. so you've got all this noise going on. and boehner's got to try to figure out a way to give these guys some cover but know he's got to cut the deal. to your point, leigh, about how do you begin to pull it from the big plan to a smaller plan, that's really what the white house and boehner quietly are talking about. >> and what we don't want also is i think a kind of down payment deal that sort of makes it a two-part deal that just delays everything. >> i think you're going to get some of that. i think you'll probably get the big deal for the middle class. okay, we're going to take that off the table. and graham and others have said that. we know we're not going to raise taxes on the middle class. let's let the bush tax cuts stay in place for the middle class. and then it becomes a little bit more of an interesting conversation when you're only dealing with a smaller percentage of the plan as opposed to the big piece right now. >> so how does he -- how does john boehner save face? you t
it's not increasing taxes on the wealthy, it's just blanketly you increase taxes. so you've got all this noise going on. and boehner's got to try to figure out a way to give these guys some cover but know he's got to cut the deal. to your point, leigh, about how do you begin to pull it from the big plan to a smaller plan, that's really what the white house and boehner quietly are talking about. >> and what we don't want also is i think a kind of down payment deal that sort of makes it a...
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some increase in marginal tax rates coupled with some kind of cutting back on tax expenditures. the real concern is shifting or will shift from the fiscal cliff to the debt limit. it's not at all clear that the republicans will agree to including a debt limit increase in that kind of package. if they don't, we may get past december 31st only to find ourselves with a big problem in february or march. >> the obama administration, the white house has been very clear, they will not sign anything, even to get past december 31st. that doesn't include a debt ceiling of some sort. so do you think they can hold firm on that if republicans offer them a package that doesn't include the debt ceiling? >> this is where i think the tension is now arising, which is even if you have some agreement over the tax rates which will jam the republicans a bit, can you jam them on the debt limit also. i think the concern will be an administration overstepping or overreaching and trying to jam a debt limit increase, especially the kinds that are being discussed now. i'm all in favor of getting rid of the
some increase in marginal tax rates coupled with some kind of cutting back on tax expenditures. the real concern is shifting or will shift from the fiscal cliff to the debt limit. it's not at all clear that the republicans will agree to including a debt limit increase in that kind of package. if they don't, we may get past december 31st only to find ourselves with a big problem in february or march. >> the obama administration, the white house has been very clear, they will not sign...
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we got four bad years of regulation taxes, he wants to add higher taxes to that. tea party two is going to dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> there's a doctor strang love. how many republicans will be willing to stand up to that threat. david corn is here to talk about it, the washington bureau chief for mother joins and the author of "47 percent" he's a member of the gridiron society and john feehery is a republican strategist. grover, you're playing defense here. one man elected to nothing. the fact that saxby chambliss comes up, i don't have to live up to some pledge i made 20 years ago and calls up and has grover on the phone going through the transcript of what he said and he's apologizing for each segment as it. what's going on? a senator has to kiss butt to this guy? >> i have known grover for a long time and i like him and he representing -- >> you're afraid of him too. >> i'm not afraid of him. he represents a cause and he's been amazingly successful because taxes have gone down for a long time because of grover. what do we nou becau
we got four bad years of regulation taxes, he wants to add higher taxes to that. tea party two is going to dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> there's a doctor strang love. how many republicans will be willing to stand up to that threat. david corn is here to talk about it, the washington bureau chief for mother joins and the author of "47 percent" he's a member of the gridiron society and john feehery is a republican strategist. grover, you're playing...
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the president has been very specific on tax revenues and what he wants. but the republicans are trying to put him in a position of doing their job for them. saying well, you tell us what you'll take and then maybe we'll come up with a plan. and clearly obama's not going to play that game. that's what geithner was signaling in the talk shows, that we're waiting for your proposal on entitlements, tell us what it is. >> look, therein lies the rub. that's the rub on this. because you led in with the president's speech in 2011. very good words, serious, somber. >> words that did not play well for the republicans. >> got that. but this is where the republicans are. okay. show me you're serious. lay out where you're beginning to want to make those cuts on entitlements. because we don't want to get out in front of this and be whipped upside the head for wanting to cut all these programs to, you know, kids afterschool and rec centers. >> the white house needs to present what they're -- >> the reality, yeah. that's it. on entitlements, the republicans view is we've
the president has been very specific on tax revenues and what he wants. but the republicans are trying to put him in a position of doing their job for them. saying well, you tell us what you'll take and then maybe we'll come up with a plan. and clearly obama's not going to play that game. that's what geithner was signaling in the talk shows, that we're waiting for your proposal on entitlements, tell us what it is. >> look, therein lies the rub. that's the rub on this. because you led in...
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tax hikes today. i think he's trying to do what he can to deflate the opposition and essentially win this vote on saturday and sort of take this as a sign that he's now free to lead the way he wants to and use the military if necessary to enforce that lead. >> meantime let's talk about syria. the civil war there spilled over to lebanon where at least 17 people were killed in recent clashes. nbc news reported president assad is getting chemical weapons ready to use on his people. of course, they've denied it. where do you put the threat level? >> well, i think the threat level is certainly increasing. you know, we obviously don't have access to those intelligence reports. but you've heard lots of signs of alarm from u.s. officials that there are indications of these chemical weapons are being prepared for use. when you combine that with the signs that maybe assad's forces are in a little bit more danger from the rebels than they were before, you might think that perhaps the regime is becoming desperate
tax hikes today. i think he's trying to do what he can to deflate the opposition and essentially win this vote on saturday and sort of take this as a sign that he's now free to lead the way he wants to and use the military if necessary to enforce that lead. >> meantime let's talk about syria. the civil war there spilled over to lebanon where at least 17 people were killed in recent clashes. nbc news reported president assad is getting chemical weapons ready to use on his people. of...
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a tax cult for 98%. the rest of the people, let's listen to them. >> it's not acceptable to me and i don't think it's acceptable to you for a handful of republicans and congressman to hold tax cuts hostage simply because they don't want tax rates on folks to go up. right? that doesn't make sense? the senate has already pass add bill to keep the taxes from going up on the middle-class families. that's already passed the senate. you remember congress, they're ready to go, they're ready to vote on that same thing. and if we can just get a few house republicans on board, we can pass the bill in the house, its wi it will land on my desk, and i am ready. i've got a bunch of pens ready to sign this bill. >> and 30 minutes after the president was finished, john boehner held a press conference. he gave a pessimistic assessment of the negotiations. let's listen to mr. boehner. >> let's not kid ourselves. but when i come out the day after the election and make it clear that republicans will put revenue on the table
a tax cult for 98%. the rest of the people, let's listen to them. >> it's not acceptable to me and i don't think it's acceptable to you for a handful of republicans and congressman to hold tax cuts hostage simply because they don't want tax rates on folks to go up. right? that doesn't make sense? the senate has already pass add bill to keep the taxes from going up on the middle-class families. that's already passed the senate. you remember congress, they're ready to go, they're ready to...
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cuts, i would get that off the table now so they don't worry about it. >> democrats insist taxes are going up on the rich no matter what. >> if you don't increase tax rates 2%, you won't generate enough revenue to have meaningful deficit reductions. >> republicans want big spending cuts to programs like medicare and social security. >> we don't want to be back here in another year or ten years answering the same questions. >> reporter: as talks continue on both sides of pennsylvania avenue, americans from main street to wall street wait to see who will blink first. brian moore, nbc news in washington. >>> bad news in afghanistan. a navy s.e.a.l. was killed during a rate saving dr. dill lop joseph who was kidnapped by the taliban. he was working for morning star development. the rescue mission was launched because u.s. officials believed the to being tore's life was in danger. president obama said the special forces soldier gave his life for a fellow american. >>> into syria, violence spilled over the border leaving 17 people dead. richard engel reports syrians are struggling to deal
cuts, i would get that off the table now so they don't worry about it. >> democrats insist taxes are going up on the rich no matter what. >> if you don't increase tax rates 2%, you won't generate enough revenue to have meaningful deficit reductions. >> republicans want big spending cuts to programs like medicare and social security. >> we don't want to be back here in another year or ten years answering the same questions. >> reporter: as talks continue on both...
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then you're fighting for tax cuts, not tax increases, but we'll see. and the fact of the matter is that grover is just a vessel for a bigger issue. taxes used to be -- >> he seems to be calling the shots. >> he's not calling the shots. >> last week to figure out -- last week on the media there's a lot of reporting that saxby chambliss stood up to grover or broke with him. here is what he said. let's look at that first. >> i care more about this country than i do about a 20-year-old pledge. >> do you think that grover norquist would hold a no new tax pledge that you signed 20 years ago, would he hold that against you in an upcoming re-election bid for the u.s. senate? >> well, you know, in all likelihood, yes, but i don't worry about that because i care too much about my country. i care a lot more about it than i do about grover norquist. >> well, "the washington post" reports today that five days after making those comments on television -- on radio rather, chambliss and norquist spoke on the phone. as norquist read allowed a transcript of chambliss' e
then you're fighting for tax cuts, not tax increases, but we'll see. and the fact of the matter is that grover is just a vessel for a bigger issue. taxes used to be -- >> he seems to be calling the shots. >> he's not calling the shots. >> last week to figure out -- last week on the media there's a lot of reporting that saxby chambliss stood up to grover or broke with him. here is what he said. let's look at that first. >> i care more about this country than i do about a...
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nobody gets tax relief. we republicans will hang out right for that 2%. >> let's talk about the president's position on this. times done changed is perhaps an understatement. my paraphrase of your words. the president in a "new york times" piece today calls attention to the way the president was talking about putting revenue on the table in 2011 versus 2012. he was talking about ending deductions and closing loopholes as a primary way to get revenue on the table which is a different position than he has now. play that sound for everybody so they can remember. sorry. it's a full screen. i will read the quotation. what we said was give us $1.2 trillion in additional revenues which could be accomplished without hiking tax rates but simply accomplished by eliminating loopholes, some deductions and engaging in a tax reform process to lower rates generally while broadening the base. that is different from where the president is at now. is there currency to the republican argument that the president has moved the g
nobody gets tax relief. we republicans will hang out right for that 2%. >> let's talk about the president's position on this. times done changed is perhaps an understatement. my paraphrase of your words. the president in a "new york times" piece today calls attention to the way the president was talking about putting revenue on the table in 2011 versus 2012. he was talking about ending deductions and closing loopholes as a primary way to get revenue on the table which is a...
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they sent her a tax bill for $300,000. they wouldn't do that to you and your wonderful wife and they wouldn't do that to other straight couples in this country. it's not fair. >> let's go to -- let's get revolutiona revolutionary. we only have a few minutes. wonder looking at justice kennedy maybe because he's irish, i'm just kidding, there's something about him i find very interesting. >> and from california. >> he's from california. if you look at the majority opinion in the case involving lawrence texas which was about outlawing or basically declaring sodomy -- anti-sodomy laws unconstitutional, he says not only in that court decision you can't deny a person's liberty in these cases to engage in intimate conduct but it's about something bigger. marriage is is not about having constant sex, it's about having a loving relationship. it's about people. >> right. >> not organs. let me -- >> it's about families. >> okay. you tell it your way. if it gets down to questions of liberty and equal protection of the law, fundamental
they sent her a tax bill for $300,000. they wouldn't do that to you and your wonderful wife and they wouldn't do that to other straight couples in this country. it's not fair. >> let's go to -- let's get revolutiona revolutionary. we only have a few minutes. wonder looking at justice kennedy maybe because he's irish, i'm just kidding, there's something about him i find very interesting. >> and from california. >> he's from california. if you look at the majority opinion in the...
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tax the rich. tax the rich. we tax the rich. everything will be fine. if we don't tax the ruch, locusts will descend from the heavens. that's all they do. that's all they've been doing for ten years. after 9/11 we should have had sacrific sacrifice, but bush cut taxes on the rich. everything is about bush tax cuts. >> my favorite montage that we put together one time was during both the '04 presidential democratic primaries and the '08 democratic primaries, every single presidential candidate, at one point, from hillary clinton to barack obama, from john kerry to john edwards, all of them, they all played for their plan with this simple phrase, "rolling back the bush tax cuts." they've been doing it for eight years. so politically, that's why the president has to draw that line in the sand. >> he draws that line in the sand, but harold ford, what happens when republicans, at least a small number of them, go ahead and raise taxes on the top 2% and then turn to the white house and say, okay. now we'll move. and then they have to talk about how they're goi
tax the rich. tax the rich. we tax the rich. everything will be fine. if we don't tax the ruch, locusts will descend from the heavens. that's all they do. that's all they've been doing for ten years. after 9/11 we should have had sacrific sacrifice, but bush cut taxes on the rich. everything is about bush tax cuts. >> my favorite montage that we put together one time was during both the '04 presidential democratic primaries and the '08 democratic primaries, every single presidential...
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tax code. you want a flatter tax code for those with less money pay more into the system. republicans have tried to talk around that because that's anç unpopular thing to tell your tea party base, middle class people, no, we think lower income people and middle income people should pay more. but when we strip away all the rhetoric about job creators and the rest, that is the core of conservativism. rich people should not pay more. they should pay less. poorer people should pay more. that's what they believe. >> i enjoy listening to progressives and liberals talk about the core of conservativism because you have it wrong. >> what does slashing the tax code -- >> this whole notion, like president obama has this fetish, we have to raise the rates on the top 2% to raise the deficit -- >> ron, ron, just one -- just one second. >> i'm almost -- >> no, you're -- ron, your narrow -- i'm sorry, ron, but you're now doing what eric can'ter, you're saying the sense the president has been speaking and con
tax code. you want a flatter tax code for those with less money pay more into the system. republicans have tried to talk around that because that's anç unpopular thing to tell your tea party base, middle class people, no, we think lower income people and middle income people should pay more. but when we strip away all the rhetoric about job creators and the rest, that is the core of conservativism. rich people should not pay more. they should pay less. poorer people should pay more. that's...
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and determined to raise taxes on the rich. it's one thing during the campaign he was specific and consistent on. it seems to me like they are even more upset about what they see his like of specificity on entitlements. let's play what we heard from his chief negotiator, tim geithner yesterday. >> we can't figure out what they need. they have to tell us. then we have to take a look at it and see if it makes sense for the american public. >> when will we see people putting something on the table or is that not going to happen until like the 30th, 31st of the month? >> well, what i would say is in the white house's initial offer they did offer $400 billion in medicare cuts. and that is something that i think the republicans should actually like as a starting point because clearly the white house knows that they are going to have to go up from there. and bob corker the senator from tennessee who was also on "meet the press" yesterday has proposed some legislation that instead cuts $641 million out of medicare. we'll see some scale
and determined to raise taxes on the rich. it's one thing during the campaign he was specific and consistent on. it seems to me like they are even more upset about what they see his like of specificity on entitlements. let's play what we heard from his chief negotiator, tim geithner yesterday. >> we can't figure out what they need. they have to tell us. then we have to take a look at it and see if it makes sense for the american public. >> when will we see people putting something...
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tax increases. after that, ezra klein breaks down the offer and we will discuss today's pow wow between state governors and president obama and what it pore tends for the 21 million americans hoping for health care and "the new york times" frank bruney weighs in on doma and cage for marriage equality when "now" starts in just three minutes. n't my daughs black bean soup spectacular? [ man thinking ] oh, this gas. those antacids aren't working. oh no, not that, not here! [ male announcer ] antacids don't relieve gas. gas-x is designed to relieve gas. gas-x. the gas xperts. gas-x is designed to relieve gas. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost.. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home... as an american express cardmember you can expect some help. but what you might not expect, is you can get all this with a prepaid card. spends like cash. feels like membership. ♪ but the fire is so delightful ♪ nothing melts away the cold like a h
tax increases. after that, ezra klein breaks down the offer and we will discuss today's pow wow between state governors and president obama and what it pore tends for the 21 million americans hoping for health care and "the new york times" frank bruney weighs in on doma and cage for marriage equality when "now" starts in just three minutes. n't my daughs black bean soup spectacular? [ man thinking ] oh, this gas. those antacids aren't working. oh no, not that, not here! [...
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house republicans would allow a vote on extending the bush middle class tax cuts. that bill already passed in august in the senate. and offer the president nothing more. no extension to the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on loopholes. congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt ceiling. ." two republican officials tell me this is becoming the most likely scenario. "the new york times" added more detail including this amazing quote from rep michael c. burgess of texas. "there's always better ground, but we have to get there." in this case the better ground is exchanging the threat of a congressionally induced recession for the threat of a congressionally induced global financial crisis combined with recession. that, that is your better ground? that's a big plan? it's not -- it's not better ground for the economy. and, frankly, i find it difficult to see how it's better political ground even for the gop. i figured, i didn't get it. so i figured this was beyond my small political brai
house republicans would allow a vote on extending the bush middle class tax cuts. that bill already passed in august in the senate. and offer the president nothing more. no extension to the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on loopholes. congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt ceiling. ." two republican officials tell me this is becoming the most likely scenario. "the new york times" added more...
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four consecutive balanced budget with a tax cut, not a tax increase. >> a tiny tax cut compared to the biggest increase in history. >> we don't need to relitigate the 1990s. i mean -- >> but the point here is that this was -- clinton did face the charge that the economy would sour if he increased taxes. but he also cut defense spending over $250 billion over 10 years. and he has said recently, one of the reasons they lost the house in 1994 was that '93 deal. but here, where is the action, bob? >> well, having tried to do some reporting on this, first of all, i think the staff, the white house staff and the house staff, have met or talked five times. it really is down to obama and boehner at the table. i think you can only take a snapshot right now and try to look at what the experience the president has had recently. he won re-election. he's had lots of ceos in to meet with him. and this is interesting. they are telling him, mostly republicans, let's give on rates. it's not a big deal. i think the house leadership may have lost the parade that is supposed to be following them on that.
four consecutive balanced budget with a tax cut, not a tax increase. >> a tiny tax cut compared to the biggest increase in history. >> we don't need to relitigate the 1990s. i mean -- >> but the point here is that this was -- clinton did face the charge that the economy would sour if he increased taxes. but he also cut defense spending over $250 billion over 10 years. and he has said recently, one of the reasons they lost the house in 1994 was that '93 deal. but here, where is...
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that's newt gingrich in 1993 on the clinton tax increase. and those of us who were working on the other side of that tax increase, newt, have been waiting fur your apology for 20 years for being completely wrong about that. >> i still don't agree with you. >> but the economy soared. no one lost a job because of that tax increase. >> it's bologna, bologna. the center for american progress said republicans were proven wrong in spectacular fashion with the longest period of economic growth in u.s. history. increased business investment. 23 million jobs added. and, of course, budget surpluses. so let's recap. his only response to it is bologna. >> the response is this. you said there would be a recession. there was no recession. >> if you look at all of the indicators the day i was elected speaker, virtually all of the increase -- in fact, all of the increase in stock market is after republicans take control. >> from bologna to taking full credit. all of that economic growth? yep, we did it. but there was nowhere to run.
that's newt gingrich in 1993 on the clinton tax increase. and those of us who were working on the other side of that tax increase, newt, have been waiting fur your apology for 20 years for being completely wrong about that. >> i still don't agree with you. >> but the economy soared. no one lost a job because of that tax increase. >> it's bologna, bologna. the center for american progress said republicans were proven wrong in spectacular fashion with the longest period of...
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tax cut extension on the 98%. is there enough there that you think, before december 31st we get there? i know with the caveat we're all trying to read the tea leaves, from your experience what does it tell us. >> i think the political will is there. you see somebody like coburn, who has been working for over a year with people like heath shuler, democrat from north carolina and mike simpson, you know, put together a letter -- >> of idaho. >> right. not a moderate. we sat in meetings and there was acknowledgement by both sides and that's why you had a letter of 40 republicans and 16 democrats that had revenue and entitlement reform in the letter six months ago. i think it's there. >> dave, let me ask you, quickly, let's say there's a deal. is it possible for a political win to come out of a deal for republicans? >> listen if we get to the successful conclusion that's moving things forward the country wants this resolved, right? being able to get to that resolution as a reflection then that you successfully governed
tax cut extension on the 98%. is there enough there that you think, before december 31st we get there? i know with the caveat we're all trying to read the tea leaves, from your experience what does it tell us. >> i think the political will is there. you see somebody like coburn, who has been working for over a year with people like heath shuler, democrat from north carolina and mike simpson, you know, put together a letter -- >> of idaho. >> right. not a moderate. we sat in...
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to go over this cliff which means they're willing to let your taxes go up and unemployment checks go away massive spending cuts happen if the pentagon instead of continuing the tax breaks for the wealthy. now there's been very little progress here on chiapitol hill which is why so many have gone home. we know that president obama and john boehner spoke by phone. republican sources telling us they had a conversation yesterday. we don't have a readout on what that was about. we don't know that if any meetings have been scheduled. but any small sign of progress is welcome here on capitol hill. now with so many lawmakers headed home and likely to face the ire of their constituents, we saw one protester in baltimore yesterday over social security. there are a few left. today there's a joint economic committee hearing. they're going to hear from a top economist not only about the jobs numbers coming out tomorrow but also about what can be done to avoid this issue at the end of the year. >> tracie potts for us in washington. thank you. >>> last night on the ed show, steny hoyer explains why
to go over this cliff which means they're willing to let your taxes go up and unemployment checks go away massive spending cuts happen if the pentagon instead of continuing the tax breaks for the wealthy. now there's been very little progress here on chiapitol hill which is why so many have gone home. we know that president obama and john boehner spoke by phone. republican sources telling us they had a conversation yesterday. we don't have a readout on what that was about. we don't know that if...
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low tax small government party. the other party leadership proposes, wait for it, $800 billion in tax increases. it's noted that the democrats have celebrated the proposal put out by president obama. meanwhile, you have a number of republicans slamming speaker boehner. how would you describe his position right now? >> well, he really didn't win for losing. he's trying to say to president obama if i wanted topaz your proposal i can't do it. he's really truly between a deal and promise and getting the fight over with and a conference that won't allow it. i think what senator demint is saying and house republicans are saying to john boehner is, let's go over the cliff. that we can live with the sequester and we absolutely will not raise tax rates no matter what. what that does is eliminate all of the tax cuts and then there's a new fight in january to push obviously by the democrats to restore tax cuts for 98% of americans. and then that will be muddied by the need for a debt ceiling increase and the fight goes in to f
low tax small government party. the other party leadership proposes, wait for it, $800 billion in tax increases. it's noted that the democrats have celebrated the proposal put out by president obama. meanwhile, you have a number of republicans slamming speaker boehner. how would you describe his position right now? >> well, he really didn't win for losing. he's trying to say to president obama if i wanted topaz your proposal i can't do it. he's really truly between a deal and promise and...
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the way for the tax cuts. here is what he's having to say about that. >> none of us want to raise the rates on anybody. but the reality is the rates on everybody go up at the end of the month. since we agree with the democrats, 98% of the american people and 80% of the bush tax cuts, get it off the table now so they don't worry about it. they are the president's leverage. the democrats are screaming your taxes are going to go up. >> that's the president's leverage in this debate as he's saying there. if congress extends the tax cut for everyone except the 2%, does it give the republicans the leverage they need after the new year? >> yeah. we are still going to have the fight over the debt ceiling. obama would love to take it off the table now. there's no way republicans are going to give that up. it's a crucial piece of leverage than the tax rates. as we saw a year and a half ago, that is really sort of putting the basic fiscal health of the country at risk. a lot of republicans are looking at that saying this
the way for the tax cuts. here is what he's having to say about that. >> none of us want to raise the rates on anybody. but the reality is the rates on everybody go up at the end of the month. since we agree with the democrats, 98% of the american people and 80% of the bush tax cuts, get it off the table now so they don't worry about it. they are the president's leverage. the democrats are screaming your taxes are going to go up. >> that's the president's leverage in this debate as...
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labor higher than we tax capitol. the republicans believe it does, they believe the higher you tax something the more you are discouraging it. there is bill crystal asking why do we want to tax labor more than capitol? that is the question. >> it is interesting. you are are seeing rank and file members of the party. you are starting to see the troops fall away. what would happen if for instance the senate bill were to be voted on in the house? >> they want to do it. and it would pass. we would have to get into these other questions. >> polls favoring the president in his approach and the outcome that he wants. and the polls i don't think that rush are limbaugh is reading those polls. >> there is no way to come to an agreement. the only thing that can happen is for one side to cave in. this is being realistic. there is no common ground here. there is no bipartisanship to be had. it ain't going to happen. there is no compromise. none. there is only concession. and that is what will happen. when rush doesn't want to soun
labor higher than we tax capitol. the republicans believe it does, they believe the higher you tax something the more you are discouraging it. there is bill crystal asking why do we want to tax labor more than capitol? that is the question. >> it is interesting. you are are seeing rank and file members of the party. you are starting to see the troops fall away. what would happen if for instance the senate bill were to be voted on in the house? >> they want to do it. and it would...
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no, it's worse -- look, our taxes are about to go up. not the taxes on our dividends though, right? that's a big part of our retirement. oh, no, it's dividends, too. the rate on our dividends would more than double. but we depend on our dividends to help pay our bills. we worked hard to save. well, the president and congress have got to work together to stop this dividend tax hike. before it's too late. >>> first he supported and now he doesn't. we're talking about mitch mcconnell's legislation to avert defaulting on the nation's debt t would give the president greater power to raise the debt ceiling without approval, something the president wants. senator mcconnell brought up the legislation yesterday morning but by yesterday afternoon he was objecting. >> is there an objection? >> preserving the right to object matters of this controversy, what we're talking about is a perpetual debt ceiling grant in effect to the president. >> this morning, republican leader asked for consent on his proposal. just now i told everyone that we're willing to have that vote. up or down vote. and now
no, it's worse -- look, our taxes are about to go up. not the taxes on our dividends though, right? that's a big part of our retirement. oh, no, it's dividends, too. the rate on our dividends would more than double. but we depend on our dividends to help pay our bills. we worked hard to save. well, the president and congress have got to work together to stop this dividend tax hike. before it's too late. >>> first he supported and now he doesn't. we're talking about mitch mcconnell's...